COMMENTS
You can automate the free student plans by enforcing students to signup using their university .edu email address.
Thats how alot of other companies do it, including microsoft because only students can get an email with a .edu email address.
Andy,
being a member since may 2006 I would like to thank you and your team for couple of great years with excellent service and FREE support. My highest respect for the things you achieved so far, I was always impressed with quality of the new functionality and amazed with the fact that you can provide all that for free.
I personally think that your prices are very very low and everyone who is complaining about them should think how much time does it cost to keep such a great system up and running, not counting the time needed to constantly give support and to upgrade the system again and again. People can be also bit more reasonable with creating spaces for every tiny component and call it a "project"... You can also make one bigger space and separate your project in to more smaller components and price will stay low. There is no need to create spaces for every tiny component, website or application.
And while I'm thinking which projects to "open" and which to pay for I do have one question: If I go to http://www.assembla.com/my_money I see a message "You currently pay for the following Private Professional spaces" and 3 out of my 7 spaces are in the list. Can you throw some light on that please? Why only three and why not all 7?
kind regards and keep up the good work !!
Well I can live w/o activity just fine with $8-10 per month. But it would be great to be able to 'archive' space anyway, like in Eclipse. Minimizing its functions to pure demonstrational/communicational. It would decrease your costs a bit and will help us to sort out things.
Also I'd liked to see ability to pay for my users, so they could not to pay themselves.
Me paying for client visiting my space is good, its motivating me to finish project.
Client paying for himself is bad: "wtf? i'm already paying you guys, i don't want to pay this assembla for the same! i dont want to spoil my credit card! use (...any service here...) instead next time!"
2Alex: 1:56 AM, what about students from countries other than USA?
Andy, you convinced me. I take your points on everything, and I'm willing to pay you for this great service. $2.30 is not much, and a fair price.
One thing still bothers me though: what happens if I need to show someone my space? Or give a read-only access to my svn repository for some time? Will we be able to have a kind of read only guest account for some purposes?
This also goes in respect of bug tracking. If I have a commercial project and I'm paying for it, will I have to pay for each customer to be able to just open bug/request feature tickets?
Can you give your insight about this? Even if it is in your future plans to allow this kind of service.
Thanks.
Ah, that's great, thanks! I'm happy now. =)
Akira, 4:22 AM; Alex, 1:56 AM: .edu is for US educational organizations only. As Andy said, users from any locations are treated the same way, so .edu can't be used as Alex suggested.
Sorry, the answer from Andy at 8:22 AM wasn't there when I opened the page.
This means that if I need to bring someone to see my space, I'm billed for them?
This also means that if there are 2 independent subscribers (say a friend and I), and I invite him to my space, I start paying $2 for him? And once we finish the job, and I remove him, I stop being billed?
Still bothers me the bug tracker issue. It would be nice to have some special account for bug tracker users. Even if we need to pay for them, but not in the same rate. They will never use spaces, and will only use the space and services that I'm already paying for.
Natan Vivo, 9:32 AM:
Thats it, you have to pay for your friend if you're both working on same project. Seems fair enough. When you finish the job and remove him, you still be billed for this space, but not for him.
(Correct me if I'm wrong) .
Dmitri, if that is right, how is this being charged? If I add someone, am I billed for the next month + $2 automatically? Or do I have to use some credit? And what if this person stays for less than a month? Is there a minimum time, like am I paying for a minimum of 1 month, and doesn't matter how many times the person joins and leaves my space at that time?
See, I'm not being cheap neither people use to join and leave spaces 10 times a day. I just would like to know better what I am paying for.
Thanks.
Hi Andy!
My 10c is that you got yourself a userbase very quickly by offering something free, leading the users to believe that at least basic service will be free. Then with very short notice you are changing the offering to a paid service for most of your users (face it Andy, most of your users are at Assembla because you offer a private space, whether you want those users or not).
This is an excellent way for you to get a lot of paying customers in a short period of time, but it's not a way to make your users happy.
These users now have to make a really quick desicion about whether to stay with Assembla and pay the fees, or to migrate all their SVN , Wiki, Trac data etc. Lots of users don't want to do this now, or don't have the time, so you are really putting the users in a situation where they are forced to become a paying customer.
Personally I have no problems paying for your services in theory, the fees are very fair, and since there is no way I can start a SVN and Wiki migration at this time you have me as a paying customer. But I have a bad feeling in my mouth. I was neither given much notice (1/2 year would be proper?) or much choice...
It's a bit like some humanitarian organization grabbing the money they deserve out of my pocket instead of letting me have the pleasure of putting the cash into the bucket.
I wrote a blog entry praising Assembla a month ago, guess it's time to make an update :-)
Keep on the good work though. You are running a good service.
What about the $10 fee to "start the relationship"? Is this reverted to credit, like a minimum of $10 to start, but I can spend it in whatever I want? Or it doesn't matter how much I pay, $10 will be subtracted as a fee to be your client (eg. pay $100, actually have $90 in credit)?
Answering Perica Zivkovic,
My mistake sorry (https://www.assembla.com/spaces/breakout/tickets/2907) but it's a know bug that will be fixed in a couple of days.
A good place to see the real list is: https://www.assembla.com/spaces/my_spaces
If you see Paid by You, then, you are the payer.
Hi,
I've been using your service for couple of weeks as a free subscriber for test purposes. I'm happy enough to move to the paid service as you are giving the best value for the money, no doubts about it, however, I would like to see the option to pay through the PayPal, my reason is security, but you might find many more "private" users coming from small projects looking for that option too. Can you please comment on this.
Hi Bolek,
We do provide both payment methods: Credit Card and PayPal. You will be prompt to choose one when you decide to upgrade your space.
Thanks
I'm perfectly content to pay for my spaces at these very low rates. I am also glad to hear my spaces will simply go into read-only mode that I do not pay for, as I like to keep backups of inactive projects. I may consider activating these again in the future. Thank you again fro the many months of free service, and best of luck.
Hi,
I am from Germany and Iam not sure if I got the pricing sheme right.
Lets say you have 1 Space, 3 Member (you and 2 Fiends), and buy it for 1 month so its 2$ * 3 + 30c ?
And for 2 Spaces, 3 different Member, and 1 Month its 2$ * 3 + 2$ + 30c * 2 ?
But at all Spaces a limit of 8$ per month?
So three maxed Spaces cost 24$?
To make things more easy could you add the price (and calculation) for current setting for each space and all spaces in total to the my_spaces site? (http://www.assembla.com/spaces/my_spaces)
I dont own a credit card or a paypal account, maybe ist possible for you to get a bank account in the EU so i could use bank transfer? (Transfer directly to U.S.A. is charged with an unknown amount).
Hope you understand me and thanks for the great service.
Kirschner
Brian Henk, 6:13 PM:
I'm not sure about those inactive projects. Is it so, Andy? Only option available atm is stop paying AND make it public.
How I can stop paying for one space, keep it private and pay for another space at the same time?
The changes you made ($8 for unlimited spaces), fixed everything I didn't like about the old price plan. For $9/month, you can now get unlimited spaces with 300MB of storage, which is great value.
Also, the payment structure doesn't have any large jumps in price that many other plans have. Eg in unfuddle, for $9/month you get 512MB of storage. If you need 513MB, you have to pay $24/month. While with assemblas plan if you need more space you only need to pay another $1 to add 300MB of storage.
So thanks for listening to our feedback about this!
Thanks for the thorough and honest explanations. Yes, I was surprised when I logged in today and saw the change. No, I don't think it's unreasonable - quite the opposite in fact. Your charges seem very low for such a great service and I'm more than happy to support a business run with the community-minded ethos that Assembla displays.
cheers
Michael
I have a few comments.
First, you seem to indicate that certain parts of the free service is causing you trouble. Such as, phone support and subversion repositories. So, why not simply remove phone support from the free accounts. This is a very common business model, where you can get the service for free, but without customer support. Then if you needed support, you could pay a one time fee to get support for that incident(some amount which easily covers the cost of this support), or you can just upgrade your account to paid and then get support from then on.
You also mentioned that subversion spaces are becoming a concern because you can't run advertising on them. Fair enough, start charging people who run subversion a couple dollars a month, or, if necessary, just make a private space with subversion only available for paid accounts.
I am a student, and many of the projects in clubs(and even in some classes) are run through assembla. However, since many of these projects are competitive in nature, having them public is not an option. On the other hand, it is not practical for students in a class to spend $10, $20 a month to use assembla to keep track of a group project for a class. Even the clubs are strapped for funds, and could not justify spending $40 to $50 per project to run an assembla space.
You said above that it was companies using assembla for free that angered you. Companies have larger budgets and can afford to pay the assembla paid account fees. School clubs and students working on group projects cannot. It would be more benificial to you in the long run to allow students to use assembla for free. At my university, products like Microsoft Office 2007 enterprise, windows XP, Vista, and other programs are all available for free. Many other companies sell their products for much reduced prices. Still other companies(such as Autodesk) make their products free for any students(anyone with a .edu email address). This way, students get used to using these products, and when they graduate and start working for a company, they'll recommend using these products.
In my clubs, some of the projects have already been moved off to alternative websites(free ones), due to the recent announcement. I am running a few projects on assembla currently for school clubs, and I'm having to consider alternatives now. Neither I nor the club can afford to pay for the fees now, so I have no choice but to find alternative sites. I would much rather stay with assembla, but because of the recent changes, I can't. trying to force people to pay fees(no matter how reasonable these fees seems) to pay them will just drive them away. This won't initially hurt your profits, but in time, these students will grow accustomed to alternative websites, and eventually recommend these services to companies(who are willing to pay for something).
In conclusion, I think that before you eliminate free private spaces, you should get the student free spaces working. Automating allowing .edu email addresses would be a good start, and get most students taken care of. Then, the smaller percentage of students without these .edu addresses could be addressed in some other way. Then, feel free to set some limits on the free student accounts if neccesary, such as no phone support, and/or limits on file space. Otherwise, you'll alienate a crucial group of people, who will soon be working for the very companies that can afford to pay for your services.
-David
Allowing unlimited users for each project, like Basecamp does, is a smart way to do business. This way, more people will learn about Assembla, and in the long run, more people will end up paying to use it.
For purely selfish reasons you should reconsider your pricing model.
In my case I have a lot of people involved in projects that need to view ticket lists, etc, but have very little additional involvement. It would be too expensive to keep all these people on Assembla, but not on Basecamp.
So, before the execs and managers have really had a chance to see how great Assembla is, I may be forced to move elsewhere. :(
Basecamp has a very good service and very good business model.
Guys, be intelligent , I know is difficult to make money, but as Basecamp is doing I should try my best to keep some part of the system free, for unlimited users (No Sourceforge, no Trak, nothing else than the basic). The basic is not a huge cost, and a lot of people will use it and someday start paying for more....
Assembla is a great product, but if you change it you will kill it... try to be as intelligent as you can.
JM
Andy,
I'm a paying customer now, and I have no problems about the price model thinking about developers.
I just think that some of your services are used by a different type of user, our customers, and you should take that into account.
CL made a good point about tickets. I'm currently paying Assembla to have services like tickets, but if I have to pay for each person a full account just to allow them to report bugs or request features, I'd be better off using some self hosted bug tracker. And if that is the case, I would move the milestones, roadmap and other related features out too. The costs to allow dozens of customers to open tickets would be prohibitive, since the $8 limit woudn't apply for multiple users.
And at this point, Assembla starts loosing its aggregate value and becomes a simple SVN/GIT hosting.
I'm totally happy to pay assembla for my personal projects, so I can access them from work, home, college and etc. But at this point I wouldn't choose it for my company.
Please consider the idea of allowing external users to use some services we pay, just like seeing the wiki and roadmap, opening tickets... even if we have to pay, it shouldn't be a full account with access to space and other tools.
You could for example charge us in steps. Include the right to have 5 ticket users (that we would choose) in the basic account, and then charge extra $2 for each extra 10 users.
I know that maybe this will require some changes in the website, but if you really want assembla to be used by companies, you must think about that.
Thanks.
I fully agree that there should be some way to make using Assembla feasible for university and college students, exactly for the reason that many of them will soon become precisely the people who you consider to be your target audience - as mentioned earlier. However, I have to disagree with David about using .edu email addresses as a solution as justified by the fact that "the smaller percentage of students without these .edu addresses could be addressed in some other way." This is an extremely narrow-minded view on the topic; only (some) American students would benefit from this, just as Dmitri pointed out. Canadians, like myself, and Europeans, like all the students that I currently work with here in Germany, would still be required to pay full price. They would thus probably look elsewhere to find a service suitable for their project hosting needs, or even decide to open source their work on a site that offers free hosting for such projects (like Google Code) as I have in the past. The majority of your market may currently still be in the USA, but if you would like to really grow your business (and do so in a
fair way - which is something you are clearly trying to do based on the posts I have read) then you should take care not to exclude international audiences. This includes emerging markets too, especially India and China, because their technological infrastructure is growing at a tremendous pace.
Bojan: When I said that students without a .edu email address should be addressed in another way, I did not mean that they should have to pay. I mean, that if a student has a .edu email address, assembla can have an automated system to take care of that. If they don't, they will have to email their information to assembla. That way, since it's likely most of the students using this system have a .edu email address, most of the students can be taken care of with the automated system, without requiring extra time or effort. The students without a .edu email address will take a bit longer to process and take care of, but that's a necessity, if you want to take care of all students.
I would think that both systems of taking care of students should be in place before the switchover happens.
-David
Limiting user charges to $8 per month is a nice way to 'solve' the problems we discussed in the older post's comments. Thank you very much.
Andy, perhaps you should consider creating a survey to find out who, why and how is using Assemla. From what I read here in this comment stream, there are at least 4 types of users:
- students (university projects)
- hobby programmers (private projects)
- freelancers (client work)
- teams (client work)
The way Assembla is used is also quite different:
- pure SVN/ticket system (internal use)
- using all tools (internal use)
- using all tools (internal and external [customers, bugreporters...] use)
Perhaps analyzing this by asking the people using Assembla will help you to further understand what they need and how you can grow the platform and your business. You also say that support is one of the expensive things. So was there an analysis what type of user needs your support and why?
Anyway, you did the right thing by all this changes to your first revision of your plans. I am a paying customer, and I hope many other people will do the same.
- Jan
Hey Andy,
I run several Open Source projects where we keep the data private, this posses a bit of a problem on Assembla with the new structure changes.
Now I don’t mind paying for my spaces, I have purchased several commercial spaces already, but I have a couple of problems that I hope can be addressed.
First off, I don’t clearly understand the pricing structure between people, spaces and the period. What are “payment units”, how are they used, and how do I know how much I’m paying for each of my spaces? I’ve looked through every page that I could see and have not found it anywhere.
Some of my projects don’t need to be commercial spaces, they just need to be like the Free accounts, but be private. Some of these projects have up to 20 people, which means that I’d be paying $40 for an Open Source Private account... that’s way too much.
Please correct me if I have misunderstood or if there is some option for Open Source Projects to remain private for a small fee.
Best Regards,
- David
Hey Andy,
In addition to my last post, the Open Source projects don’t need extra features or space, we don’t need the space to use an SSL, we don’t need the space to be commercial, we just need the space to be private like it used to be. Again, paying a small fee is not a problem, but when you have large teams, it does become a very big concern for us.
It would be nice if we could have what we were getting before, the same space, just tickets, milestones and SVN + browser, for a small fee no matter the size of the team.
The reason behind these Private OSS is that the development itself is private until releasing to the public, otherwise we’d be using BountySource, Google Code, SourceForge, or any number of other competitors that have free SVN integration for open source (public) projects. But the reason we chose Assembla was because we could get a Private project for free, and because these private projects don’t make any money, we couldn’t afford to put them anywhere that would charge us for hosting the projects.
Although we don’t mind coming out of pocket for private usage, as I do feel that we want to support Assembla, the fees very well may hurt us to the point that we will have to go with alternate options outside of Assembla.
- David
Hey,
First, I wanted to thank you...I just signed up about a month ago because I was incredibly impressed with your service.
I know this would be hard to regulate, but several software companies offer a certain license for "educational", "research", and "commercial", etc. Would a similar pricing system be a possibility here?
Basically, if you are going to make a profit off what is done using the system, you should have to pay a good deal of money (a commercial license). $X/company +$X/(disk space), where X is a relatively large number. Of course, small companies won't be happy with this, but frankly, you are offering an awesome service that helps that small company out quite a bit. Yeah, they are cash strapped, but, so are you!
Also, if you a providing a service to a university, they should have to pay as well. It seems to me there are two cases: they use it for research, and they use it for classwork. For research, they should have to pay...that is what grants are for! For classes, it is a service they should provide the students, thus you are saving them time and money...colleges should have to pay for your service! Here, maybe $x/university+$x/(disk space) could work.
Maybe this could be based on expected use, perhaps restrict the total number of users, or maybe restricting total number of projects...whatever would work out best for you. But hearing college profs suggest that their students use assembla for free seems a little wrong.
Then, there are the nonprofits, tinkerers, hobbyists, etc. These would be the people who just want to use the features of the service, but don't really have the money to pay much (but I can imagine they would still be able to pay something). Maybe you could make the pricing for this category based on $x/administrator +$x/(disk space) (but allow unlimited spaces for that administrator).
Naturally, this would be difficult to regulate, but any serious company or university would pay money rather than risk legal trouble.
Just a disclaimer: I am a MIT student, and I plan to use Assembla for the Battlecode 2009 competition, for 1 month in January. Naturally, I would love to just get one month of private free service (and hope I do with the free student project program), but I am willing to pay a reasonable price for one month, since this is such an awesome site.
PS. I posted a similar message in a previous blog post, but it is more relevant here.
Just for clarification:
"Our communication has been limited, even stilted, but our intentions have not been hidden in any deliberate or sneaky way."
Ok, your intentions have not been hidden in any deliberate or sneaky way.
But your intentions have been hidden just BECAUSE communication stilted, and thats sneaky in the end.
Hey Andy,
Perhaps I wasn’t too clear on exactly what that means. We have sites and development projects associated with Open Source projects. This includes our OSS websites, which cannot be open to the public. This is why they must exist on a private tracker, they simply cannot be public. Some of our projects our public on Assembla, some are private, this is what I was getting at.
Here is what I face right now:
I purchased Commercial spaces at the rate of $12.50 per month. This is great for the non-OSS projects that I work with.
With the new pricing structure, if I have 20 team members:
1 space * 20 people * $2.00 per team member = $40 per month for the same thing I’m getting my commercial space for $12.50 per month.
Lets say I have 4 spaces at $12.50 per month, this is $50 per month, although I would sooner pick the Unlimited option Assembla used to have. But for comparison sake, lets say I use the same 20 team members on 4 spaces at the new plan:
4 spaces * 20 people * $2.00 per team member = $160 per month.
So you can see at 4 spaces, I would be paying $110 *more* per month...
But for many of the spaces, I don’t need them to be commercial, they don’t need 5GB, they don’t need the SSL features, we don’t need support, etc...
But if Assembla insists on charging for private projects now, couldn’t there be a cheaper option with no additional features? And if people want the extra space, features, SSL, etc... then you can use the new pricing structure, which isn’t bad for what you get, but we don’t need that. The current pricing structure is going to kill me. If there isn’t an alternative option for us to stick with Assembla, I’d like to get a refund on the $100 I purchased, and I’ll put that money toward colocation hosting my second server and setting up my own SVN repository setups.
Thanks for taking time to respond and read all these replies. :)
Best regards,
- David
Hi Andy,
Just for clarity, this isn’t about helping Open Source projects, (that was just used as an example) it’s about offering a solution with less features and space for a much smaller flat fee. I know that $2.00 on the surface sounds like a cheap deal, but when you add it all up, it nickels and dimes you to death way beyond the cost of anything else out there.
i.e. $5 per month for something that used to be free isn’t bad, and sounds WAY cheaper than the $2 per user/space/month format we see now. You don’t need to give them extra features, just allow it to be private for a small fee.
- David
Glad to see the capped user charge (it was a bit concerning for us)
We were willing to pay anyway, but the introduction of the user cap really does make you guys one of the best value service providers out there. i really feel we are getting excellent value for money.
Thanks!
Originally this caught me off guard.
Someone here at work told me about it after I had just recommended they look into it for a tiny project they were working on (to learn how to use SVN). After I picked myself up off the floor I started reading your blog.
Even though the ONLY thing I use out of the tools is SVN, I
really believe it's worth the money. And to boot, you have listened to the users and made futher changes. It hit me when you said in another article that YOU needed to make your house payment and send your kids to college too. Well hell that was
my excuse for not paying -- it got turned around on me and now I realize that quality service deserves to be paid for.
I TREMBLE to think of the day that GMail decides to charge - I'll have to host my own email again and learn to love spam.
Thanks for listening, thanks for lowering the $, and I hope this works out for ya.
Kind regards
Hi Andy,
As a latam web freelancer I try to minimize my production costs, but this time I can't agree more: you guys deserve to be paid for the great work you're doing.
I completely respect your work, and as I don't work for free, neither you.
+1 customer for you guys.
Keep it up!
May I pay 100$ for 120 units (for example) and will I be able afterward to spread units between a two-three spaces?
I'm nearly ready to suscribe to your service, but, is there a way somewhere to know how much my current usage is going to cost me ? (before suscribing, of course)
I can do my own calculations, but i'd rather get a "quote" from you directly.
Guillaume,
Yes, in this page http://www.assembla.com/spaces/migrate you will find a panel that tells you how much all your private spaces will cost you for your current usage.
We currently do not offer an automatic calculation for upgrading free public spaces or one space in particular.
Hi,
I've read majority of the comments on this site and i must admit some of them are hilarious. People arguing about 2.30$ like its half of their monthly wage.
And to add my own comment i have to say that i support your decision to charge for free private projects. I knew before it won't be free forever. Though i'm a bit suprised you have such low income with this site since there are so many users. I wonder how companies like google survive with their free software like youtube. I mean they probably use a lot more of server space/bandwith and they manage to keep it free.
Another think i can't seem to understand is why must university projects be kept private. Is there anything wrong if someone browses their code ? In my opinion especially universities should support open source.
They should, but often they don't.
Besides, there are lots of reasons students don't want to share what they are working on with the other people/students. If someone lazy ever got the credit for something you created, you know one example of why.
I'm not happy with the forced public spaces...
I've deleted all my stuff and not coming back here again...
I continue to receive email notifications that ask me to upgrade to commercial plan, even if I already deleted my space.
When I deleted my space, I notified staff via email info@assembla.com. So, staff should be aware of that.
Please, stop to send me emails that ask to upgrade.
Thanks to all
Marco
Hi Andy,
I just found something rather interesting, I hope it is a bug. -- For private spaces, if you are not part of their team, you can still access their Beta Assembla SVN browser, so the code is fully visible to you. The only catch is that you have to be signed up on Assembla, but the code for private spaces is fully viewable.
Regards,
- David
While the 2$ per user is low, It really adds up pretty quickly if you have a few users.
Saying that is cheapher than offering beer or a slice of pizza is unfair unless the company gives every month to all of theirs employees and costumers beer and pizza. It works once on a while, but not everytime they check in with you.
Also, I would like to suggest to revise http://www.assembla.com/discounts The examples do not seem clear. Saying that "
they are free, because you already pay for them" looks fishy. Also, you use the word "total" alot while it only refers to increments when adding users and do not really refer to the actual monthly cost.
If I want a project, I have no idea how much would pay without getting my calculator and doing the estimate by hand. I strongly suggest you make an online calculator where the user could insert number of spaces, users and size and get the actual price.
Hi guys,
You built a nice tool but it is not worth the money for clients like me who just use the ticketing system and a few wiki pages...
I feel really pressured to drop Assembla when the only choice is to pay to $35 a month to keep a ticketing system or make it publicly available (which is obviously not a real option...). You may want to review the per user charge policy... not many people do it and you will end up loosing many clients with that scheme I think.
Fabrice
I haven't been keeping up with all the pricing changes that have been happening over the last couple months, but I've had a commercial space for the last 5 months and have been completely satisfied with the service and the charges.
Great service. I'm sorry I will have to start paying but I recognize this is a business. I hope you're not discouraged by confused people calling you an "asshole" and whatnot.
It would be really handy to see on the 'team' page how much I am paying for each member. Myself, and one person on a few of my teams are at the $8 cap, but there is no indication of it in the interface.