COMMENTS
Hi Andy
Yes thats the Standard Industry Model these days. However we as a company has grown with repeat business from our customers and providing them more and more value by having good understanding of their business and priorities.
We would like to work with you. We are a specialized product engineering company and work in small teams using Agile and Iterative development processes. We have a strength of 70+ people in India and UK with excellent business analyst and product engineering teams. You could know more about us on http://www.infoaxon.com or maile me at vineet[dot]dahiya[at]infoaxon[dot]com......thanks and regards, Vineet
The smaller companies who offer outsourcing services by and large pay less, provide lesser benefits. By and large, this dissuades good talent from working for them. However, small companies tend to be more focused on the area of work (domain, skills). Those who care for work contents, have some planned goals for their career opt for these companies. The problem is that many times companies giving out work tend to favor bigger service providers for perceived benefits such as backup/ contingencies, knowledge pool (!?), etc. The bigger companies are also pressurized for price as other smaller companies provide services cheaper.
All said and done, the service providers try to maximize their profits. Revenues directly depend on the number of persons assigned/ billed to projects. If dollar is weakening against other currencies, if price pressure is there, no prize for guessing how to maintain the profit margins!
Hi Andy,
Economies of scale is certainly an issue but equally important is the engineering staff on hand and the ability to be able to provide for instance, mechanical, electrical and production engineering with the capability of passing off error free ODM & DFM work. Essentially you are looking at a Hybrid or new breed of animal that is few and far between at present. One such company that I am aware of is Texas Prototypes (TXP). This is an interesting group of talent that originated out of Flextronics and have carved out a impressive niche. Well worth a look. I am not involved with TXP other than an investor but through my due dilligence I have discovered their impressive business model.
http://www.txpcorporation.com/
Jim
Andy,
I own a Chicago-based offshore development firm (Pakistan, not India) and I hear what you're saying a lot.
Many offshore firms are little more than 'software sweatshops' that over-promise and under-deliver.
We're not for everyone and we only work with clients that demand high quality and
are willing to pay for it. I created a silly blog making fun of the entire outsourcing industry. You may enjoy the 3 most recent posts. Check them out at http://BoycottSoftwareSweatshops.com
Finding good offshore developers isn't hard, but finding people who are committed and
reliable is next to impossible. Again, commitment is the missing ingredient in a sour offshore relationship.
Outsourcing is about high value, not low cost. We don't take our selves too
seriously but are dead serious about what we do. We're a small team, and we're hungry as hell, so we can't afford to sell you a bill of goods.
I'm not going to tell you how good we are... I'll let you judge for yourself.
Anywho...give me a shout if you think it makes sense to chat.... I'm up for the challenge.
Raza Imam
http://BoycottSoftwareSweatshops.com
There is absolutely no point in hiring from India.
Reason:
1. Good talent is scarce and its all absorbed by best of the companies who pay them better than what US company (scouting of offshore resource) might pay.
2. There is a huge local demand for IT in India, which again absorbs bulk of talent.(unlike in Latin American and Eastern European where there is not much native demand.)
3. Today due to currency changes the money earned working for the local Indian clients catering for domestic market is more than that working for some US company remotely.
So in the end you are left with so called Indian offshore companies who have below average talent available to offer. They may be ready to work at small US rates but would not give you quality.
Thanks
Sachin
"Gartner, the world’s leading information technology research and advisory company, has placed Pakistan amongst the top countries of the world in terms of suitability for offshore outsourcing."
source: http://pashanews.org/?p=36
I think if you turn towards Pakistan for such outsourcing, odds of finding better resources are higher even for small teams. The above report points out significant gap in salaries between the two countries.
“The salaries of IT professionals in Pakistan are approximately 30% lower than those in India, while telecommunication costs are also low as compared to any other offshore locations, which make Pakistan an attractive outsourcing destination.”
As you might have guessed I am a Pakistani software developer. I am not sure whether the software outsourcing industry here is as mature as in India. But from what I understand there is a lot of value in Pakistan for Assembla's recruiting strategy.
Please do read the above story (or the original Gartner's report if you have access to it).
Feel free to contact me for any assistance you might need in exploring the Pakistani market.
IS pakistan suitable for software business? I dont think so..
With Pakistan as politically unstable as it is at the moment, I steer clear of it. Also, I don't want to do business in a country that I wouldn't feel safe traveling to, and as an American I sure wouldn't feel safe in Pakistan.
I have a guy in Pakistan. He is doing a good job. I would encourage people to look for talent in Pakistan. However, I think that selecting workers by the country that they live in is not going to give you good results. I guarantees that you re going to be in the grip if personal biases (as demonstrated above) rather than professional judgement.
I have worked with some very brilliant developers / team leaders from India. I have no bias against them, but I do have a warning for anyone hiring folks from India. In order to secure a job, most Indians will nod their head yes to ANY question asked of them. What's worse is that when they are on the team and tasks are being handed out, they will again nod their head yes like they fully understand what is expected of them.
There is no shame in not understanding a question or a task. I trained a couple of hiring managers on this "always nod yes" phenomenon. Other than that, I have enjoyed working with my Indian peers.
Regards & God Bless,
Tom
Pakistan is in a difficult spot right now, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have good developers and businessmen.
Remember that Russia is a very dangerous place for Western business (not to mention the war in Chechnya), China has virtually no respect for IP, and India just recently had a spat of ethnic violence. But all three countries are outsourcing hotspots.
Andy is right, Pakistan has good developers, and although it's hitting a rough patch, the job of visionary businessmen is to insulate their employees and customers from crisises. I have two posts on my blog about this phenomenon.
Although Pakistan's outsourcing market isn't as sophisticated as India, we aren't facing the attrition plague yet. Also, most offshore firms in Pakistan were founded by Pakistanis who have worked in the US and have recently returned. This is a HUGE plus. The smaller vendors in India don't have this advantage (the larger ones have top management with US experience i.e. Infosys, but they deal with Fortune 1000 firms, not small and medium companies)
It's not a matter of geography, it's a matter of how the vendor runs their business. In Pakistan for example, consistent electricity is a big problem... but we are mitigating that by purchasing solar panels. It's a big deal for us, but if we want to build a sustainable business, we need to show our clients that we're thinking long-term and nipping problems at the bud.
Raza Imam
http://BoycottSoftwareSweatshops.com
'If you are hiring less than 20 people at a time, a larger outsourcing company is going to give you crappy talent'
May this is true for larger outsourcing companies where size of account matters. But small companies survive by proving their technically competency and value addition to clients. If your team is small, what each developer does really matters and exposed. So the chances of client finding the crap is easy.
'In India, the best people want to work for the biggest companies and the biggest brands'
In my view, it is quite opposite. The best people never like to get flushed in process flow. Big companies generally have salary scales. You may be doing best job among your peers but chances of getting paid more will be very less.End of the day, if you pay crap, you are going to get crap.
I can only say don't go with the herd. India is a land of billion people. And a few companies dosn't define how indian companies work. There are many midsized and small sized companies india which people are not aware of. Infact best people never join the biggies rather they end up in heading some branch in these small companies. These small companies have a very flat hierarchy and proven hiring practices much much better than the bulk hiring practices of the big companies. So even the work of these small companies is much better than best of most of these big companies. And as adi said pay is directly proportional to quality. If you want quality then you pay. and Pay to people who are worth and not worthless people and say that whole country of billion are bad as i hired a few dozen worthless creatures to build my nest. :)
Andy, did you read what I said about Pakistan? It mentioned nothing about the competence of Pakistani developers. What if I have to use the legal system there to resolve a dispute with an outsourcing company or an independent contractor? Will I get a fair shake? What if I have to travel there to resolve a dispute or meet with the vendor? Will I attract attention of head-chopping religious fanatics? If I inadvertently run afoul of some local law, (for example, by wearing a cross on a chain or asking a woman in the street for directions or having a People magazine with pictures of bikini-clad women in it) will I end up in jail? These are all valid concerns, and the very fact that I have to consider them WRT a country is enough to make me avoid that country altogether.
Another somewhat related news
http://services.silicon.com/offshoring/0,3800004877,39170237,00.htm
I don't agree with you..
It is always better to decries expenses then wait for something. You should spend some time and find Good company you can believe to .. and then you can order any development services ..
hi every i really like your comment many knowledgeable information in this site and every articles in this site really very nice thanks for share it.
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The problem with outsourcing development work is sloppy software quality being delivered. I have worked in the IT field for the past 15 years and have always had to fix most / all code written by 3rd party vendors since they care about code output and not whether the application will actually work or not.